From ben at socialtools.net Mon Aug 2 11:13:02 2004 From: ben at socialtools.net (Benjamin Geer) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 19:13:02 +0100 Subject: [Ocaml-i18n] Re: locales in Camomile and OCamlI18n In-Reply-To: <20040522.082724.48536632.yoriyuki@mbg.ocn.ne.jp> References: <40AE8708.4020504@socialtools.net> <20040522.082724.48536632.yoriyuki@mbg.ocn.ne.jp> Message-ID: <410E842E.2090404@socialtools.net> Yamagata Yoriyuki wrote: > Later, IBM developed XML > version of them, which become a foundation of Locale Data Markup > Language (LDML). You can find DTD and all in > http://www.openi18n.org/specs/ldml/ and the data repository > http://www.openi18n.org/subgroups/lade/locale/. > > I wanted to migrate LDML, but I did not have enough time (and > energy). If you make a library to access them, then Camomile will use > it. I can now start to work on this. Note that the LDML project seems to have moved here: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/ The locale data is now here: http://www.unicode.org/cldr/ The old project at openi18n.org seems to be dead (many broken links, no updates since last year). Ben From mattam at mattam.org Tue Aug 17 11:16:34 2004 From: mattam at mattam.org (Matthieu Sozeau) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:16:34 +0200 Subject: [Ocaml-i18n] OCamlI18N-0.2 & ldml progress In-Reply-To: <20040816222633.GA24159@grand> References: <20040816222633.GA24159@grand> Message-ID: <200408172017.10838.mattam@mattam.org> OCamlI18N-0.2 is available, at: http://mattam.org/soft/OCamlI18N.html it introduces an LDML compliant Locale module (with the Canonical level 2, IOW POSIX compatibility implemented) and checks languages and country codes against file databases. It's a first step towards LDML, which I'll continue to work towards now. Benjamin, have you advanced on the datatypes ? We have to answer some previous questions from Yamagata now too: ... > Further it would be good to have a generic mechanism to handle > locale dependent data, not limited to LDML. Your libaray would be a > natural place for it. Then Camomile can govern all localle specific > data through your library. I wonder what you mean by locale dependent data, is it just objects with different versions for each language ? > In additon, Camomile needs ISO language and country code. Current > approach is parsing locale name, but if you introduce non-standard > locale name, then some method for getting ISO codes is necessary. What sort of non-standard locale names do you expect ? > I think LDML have them, but we have to consider performance problems of > loading LDML when each time locale is used. ... ISO codes are just 15kb in total, and you don't have to load a lot of ldml files to support a dozen locales in a program, apart from the collation table creation/loading, what performance problems do you see ? -- A bug in the hand is better than one as yet undetected. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: signature Url : /pipermail/ocaml-i18n/attachments/20040817/eff616d2/attachment.pgp From sylvain.le-gall at polytechnique.org Tue Aug 17 13:59:58 2004 From: sylvain.le-gall at polytechnique.org (Sylvain LE GALL) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:59:58 +0200 Subject: [Ocaml-i18n] OCamlI18N-0.2 & ldml progress In-Reply-To: <200408172017.10838.mattam@mattam.org> References: <20040816222633.GA24159@grand> <200408172017.10838.mattam@mattam.org> Message-ID: <20040817205958.GA10924@grand> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:16:34PM +0200, Matthieu Sozeau wrote: > OCamlI18N-0.2 is available, at: > http://mattam.org/soft/OCamlI18N.html > > it introduces an LDML compliant Locale module (with the Canonical level 2, IOW > POSIX compatibility implemented) and checks languages and country codes > against file databases. It's a first step towards LDML, which I'll continue > to work towards now. > > Benjamin, have you advanced on the datatypes ? > > We have to answer some previous questions from Yamagata now too: > ... > > Further it would be good to have a generic mechanism to handle > > locale dependent data, not limited to LDML. Your libaray would be a > > natural place for it. Then Camomile can govern all localle specific > > data through your library. > > I wonder what you mean by locale dependent data, is it just objects with > different versions for each language ? > > > In additon, Camomile needs ISO language and country code. Current > > approach is parsing locale name, but if you introduce non-standard > > locale name, then some method for getting ISO codes is necessary. > What sort of non-standard locale names do you expect ? > > > I think LDML have them, but we have to consider performance problems of > > loading LDML when each time locale is used. > ... > > ISO codes are just 15kb in total, and you don't have to load a lot of ldml > files to support a dozen locales in a program, apart from the collation table > creation/loading, what performance problems do you see ? Hello again, I think you forgot src/config.ml.in or i miss something. Kind regard Sylvain Le Gall ps : i found a solution to detect new version of ocamli18n from your webpages From mattam at mattam.org Tue Aug 17 14:28:38 2004 From: mattam at mattam.org (Matthieu Sozeau) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:28:38 +0200 Subject: [Ocaml-i18n] OCamlI18N-0.2 & ldml progress In-Reply-To: <20040817205958.GA10924@grand> References: <20040816222633.GA24159@grand> <200408172017.10838.mattam@mattam.org> <20040817205958.GA10924@grand> Message-ID: <200408172328.44621.mattam@mattam.org> On Tuesday 17 August 2004 22:59, Sylvain LE GALL wrote: > I think you forgot src/config.ml.in or i miss something. You're right, I'll just update the tarball this time. > ps : i found a solution to detect new version of ocamli18n from your > webpages Nice, i added it to the links db anyway. -- BOFH Excuse #24: network packets travelling uphill (use a carrier pigeon) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: signature Url : /pipermail/ocaml-i18n/attachments/20040817/a3fdd229/attachment.pgp From ben at socialtools.net Wed Aug 18 11:57:58 2004 From: ben at socialtools.net (Benjamin Geer) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:57:58 +0100 Subject: [Ocaml-i18n] OCamlI18N-0.2 & ldml progress In-Reply-To: <200408172017.10838.mattam@mattam.org> References: <20040816222633.GA24159@grand> <200408172017.10838.mattam@mattam.org> Message-ID: <4123A6B6.9000809@socialtools.net> Matthieu Sozeau wrote: > OCamlI18N-0.2 is available, at: > http://mattam.org/soft/OCamlI18N.html > > it introduces an LDML compliant Locale module (with the Canonical level 2, IOW > POSIX compatibility implemented) and checks languages and country codes > against file databases. It's a first step towards LDML, which I'll continue > to work towards now. This is very good news. > Benjamin, have you advanced on the datatypes ? Unfortunately I haven't been able to find time to make much progress. I gave some thought to how to handle inheritance between locales, and wrote a small prototype of this, but I don't have anything that looks like real LDML types or can read the real XML files. Ben From yoriyuki at mbg.ocn.ne.jp Fri Aug 20 06:48:26 2004 From: yoriyuki at mbg.ocn.ne.jp (Yamagata Yoriyuki) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:48:26 +0900 (JST) Subject: [Ocaml-i18n] OCamlI18N-0.2 & ldml progress In-Reply-To: <200408172017.10838.mattam@mattam.org> References: <20040816222633.GA24159@grand> <200408172017.10838.mattam@mattam.org> Message-ID: <20040820.224826.104048973.yoriyuki@mbg.ocn.ne.jp> From: Matthieu Sozeau Subject: [Ocaml-i18n] OCamlI18N-0.2 & ldml progress Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:16:34 +0200 > > Further it would be good to have a generic mechanism to handle > > locale dependent data, not limited to LDML. Your libaray would be a > > natural place for it. Then Camomile can govern all localle specific > > data through your library. > > I wonder what you mean by locale dependent data, is it just objects with > different versions for each language ? Essntially so. However, a collation table can be quite large, so we cannot assume they are all in the memory. > > In additon, Camomile needs ISO language and country code. Current > > approach is parsing locale name, but if you introduce non-standard > > locale name, then some method for getting ISO codes is necessary. > What sort of non-standard locale names do you expect ? Using aliases for locale names appears quite common. (For example, catalan for ca_ES) > ISO codes are just 15kb in total, and you don't have to load a lot of ldml > files to support a dozen locales in a program, apart from the collation table > creation/loading, what performance problems do you see ? I forget what I was thinking about, but for example Chinese locale definitions is rather large, so we cannot ignore their memory cost and loading time. Just a random thought. -- Yamagata Yoriyuki